Science Vs Religion

[Seijuro]

this is such a big debate. So science::slap:religion. ill post my opinion later.

[disgradius]

Hmmm, I'm not quite sure what part we're supposed to discuss but heres my take:

religion is vital in the early stages of civilization to bring social order allowing for further development.

But now that mankind has advanced, and we gain greater intellect, we should be able to think for ourselves and thats why I think science is more applicable to present day.

Basically its like democracy and forms of dictatorship.

Why do some countries still have monarchs or dictators? Its necessary to keep order. But when it no longer becomes necessary, democracy allows for further development of the group. Same for science and religion.

Thats my take on it at least :D

[saniya]

well to my aspect science came later then religion but its true todays scientific research have lead to great discovery and solutions but to me i think science and religion go hand in hand since i think now we are being abe to make more sense of our religions through science and are able to make the proper choices....

[Seijuro]

everything i just made the topic so that people could argue to their hearts content. bring up cloning evolution incosistenceys in bible and christian history, things that defy science people that have defied science. any thing you want. its just a general topic of science vs religion since in most of the other topics thats what most peoples ideas come down too. So i thought why not just havea general topic.

[renegade0]

Vs? What do you mean by Vs? Don't forget: People make Religion because they amazed by nature. Beside that, religion also has its own role: morale . The higher solution pop out cause by scientist, the more you need religion. Remember: science could make pesticide, but couldn't prevent you to use it

[aznkangaroo3]

This such a general topic we can go on and on and get carried away. I heard that some religions are trying to incorporate science into their religion. I don't know how they can fuse the two o.o".

[jimmy123]

regardless which is better, both science and religion does promote a better living lifestyle for us humans :D

[Seijuro]

but you see i dont agree with you that religion promotes a better lifestyle for humans. I mean how could when i teaches everythign htat turns you away from religion is the devil. and as a child you grow up believing that. It conforms you a specific way of thinking. Personally i dont think htat is good in any way. I put it vs because i am sitll getting people opinion of religion is better than science. it doesnt matter if the topic is general. I just wanted a contoversal debate that could go on for a while. thats what makes dabateing interesting.

[Seijuro]

Remember: science could make pesticide, but couldn't prevent you to use it

they could prevent the use of it. as they created it they eventually discovered the harmful effects of it. and not promote the use of soap. I dont see how religion plays any part in that.

[UnseenDeath]

I am not a relious person, so i dislike it when people push their religion on u for no good reason.

the idea of sceince is sold and firm. Although it tells the truths that not many peopl want to hear it at least give a reason and an explaintion of why it will happen. Im currently siding with science for the fact that it gives me proff that is in numbers and data.

religion is based on fiction. thats basically what the bible is. Many people need to base their lives off this becuase they believe that they need a bigger reason that some one wanted them here and that its that someone that is controlling their lives not them. people are naturally fallowers looking for a leader. there are very select few that are the leaders.

(sorry for bible bashing. i mean nothing by it)

[T.Y.]

Stories in the bible cannot be proven so it can't be labled as fiction or fact and Science is all about fact so one cannot be better than other. Science can prove the reason why babies are born but cannot answer unprovable statements like life but religion fills in the rest such as souls that keeps the bodies alive. One cannot exist without each other

[p4091a]

first of all everyone seems to have a different view on what is religion, and what are it's impacts, so its kinda hard to debate about it...

religion, especially polythestic ones help to 'explain' the phenomena that we did not understand in the past (eg, lightning, phases of the moon, volcanic eruptions, how we came ot be etc)

then, as the human race started to find out more about our environment, we began find that some of these religions did not ring true, hence the rise of monothestic religion.

Religion bring along with it religious teachings, but a lack of these DOES NOT mean that athetists do not have morals. Rather, religion is a thing of the social, to help bring people together (though it may set some apart), to provide emotional support for those in times of need.

In my opinion, people who do not face any extremely big crisises would not actually look constantly towards a higher being, but everyone needs a bit of science. (firemaking anyone?)

[miniii]

Religions tries to manipulate us in the way we think and live.
I don't believe any religions, sorry if i offend anyone but i think it's absolute BULLSH@T.

Science I do believe, but somethings can't be explained like how our universe formed and what exactly light is.
I like science better, sticks to the facts.

[Timely]

To say that religion teaches us morales is wrong. There are different assortments of ways that expierience, not religion, has given us moral values. Furthermore, I believe that eventually Science will be dominant over Religion and never will be the time that religion and science will ever be a conjoint force. Religion is something that was used only to control the masses and do their own selfish bidding, for nothing. But, with the increase of technology, we don't need such primordial applications to control the mass, just send out a couple of cellphones and TV's and all of a sudden, your population is under the will of technology.

[Leave]

Religion has always been society's attempt at answering questions that were impossible to truly discover. Well... nowadays it seems religions that Kabalah and Scientology are being popularized simply so celebrities have a place to hang out, but that's beside the point. As I said, they attempted to answer the unanswerable, and thus religion was formed. Now, however, with further and further advancements in science and technology, we can find those answers out. How did life first come about? Prehistoric Earth's environment was so fundamentally different than the present day that spontaneous generation of life was at one time possible. Things like these are continuing to emerge, and the closer we can inspect, the less religion is needed.

The Bible is not necessary for morals... Being raised atheist, I never read any of it into my exploratory years in my teens, yet I learned plenty of morals. Literature, experience, and the experience of those close to you can provide morals without religion. It is certainly true that people take comfort from the concept of a God, and of an after life, and I applaud them. If that is what helps them come to terms with their existence and so long as they don't push their beliefs on me, good for them. I myself take comfort in the absence of destiny, as well as the independence of not having a guide or maker to fall back on.

I personally think that people could find their own means of coping with existence without falling back to God if they hadn't been brought up with the concept of his supposed existence. If people were raised without the concept of a God (something that's next to impossible in this day and age considering the typical nuclear family has some kind of religious belief, as do your neighbors and etc), I feel that they would be as confused as I was when I learned about Christianity. As a child who'd already developed without such an idea, it seemed foolish to me, impractical and nonsensical. Why? Because I was raised with science, not religion. Belief in the supernatural was something one treaded into whilst watching a horror movie or reading a fantasy novel, not basing their life around.

But that's just me and my ramblings. Feel free to ignore.

[meanlilkitty]

http://www.coidesign.com/films.php?cid=43

[Ikki2107]

Sciecne got proof and edvince while all religon got is a book or books and what some prhoet told them so i would have to say science being a science guy myself .

[Antiluz]

Sciecne got proof and edvince while all religon got is a book or books and what some prhoet told them so i would have to say science being a science guy myself .

This is pure and utter Shit, it isn't even an opinion.

What "some" prophet told them? books?

Man you obviously have no idea about how vast religious beliefs run and how different they are to many different cultures.

I agree with Reapers earlier comment, although not all of it.

Religion is a fabrication of stories made to instill people with hope and a belief of a future when they die. Religion (take Catholicism) has been stretched and altered to suit every pope since it was written.For example 30 years ago pope john Paul II made it very clear about HIS beliefs on contraception and homosexuality and told all Catholics to follow them. Most did and followed blindly so in conclusion Religion moves the world backwards with only progress for the sake of progress happening and is not a necessary factor needed to live.

It is MY personal belief that Christianity was formed to bully people in to a sort of control, to be under the thumb of the system and the church.

It is undeniable that Christmas was a Pagan Holiday before it was stolen and converted into the now commercialized Christmas, and it is undeniable that several facts from paganism have been leeched in to other religions as they have attempted to wipe them out.

About the red, I disagree with this slightly, i think everyone needs "Something" to believe in, whether it deity or dream.

Science will bring us technological advancement and prosperity when used properly.
Science will only speed up our own destruction if used improperly.

Religion will bring us peace of mind and happiness in life if regarded properly.
Religion will tear us all apart if continued to be used as a weapon among nations.


I Don't believe in a faith that puts one thing above all else, that idolises someone, I chose to follow a faith that believes in Balance, Not an idol, and in my belief system there is no after life, there is merely decay as my Corpse feeds the weeds. But you know what, I'm happy.

[Cross Croccifixio]

Listen, let me make this logical, and simple if I can :

1) If there was indeed, NO GOD, then how would the Universe have come to be? A random Big Bang, and that's it? Where'd they get the Big Bang elements if there was nothing in the beginning?
2) If there was NO GOD, how'd the ordinary day person get created? How did the first atom get formed? How, how, how?
3) And if there was indeed NO GOD, we won't be here at all. In the beginning, there has to be one sort of super human, an unnatural thing. Something. ANYTHING.

Screw these ideas if you want to, I think of life as the above. There is a God ... But we may never know ... There might be no God at all. But I believe there is a god.

[burnedalive]

Listen, let me make this logical, and simple if I can :

1) If there was indeed, NO GOD, then how would the Universe have come to be? A random Big Bang, and that's it? Where'd they get the Big Bang elements if there was nothing in the beginning?
2) If there was NO GOD, how'd the ordinary day person get created? How did the first atom get formed? How, how, how?
3) And if there was indeed NO GOD, we won't be here at all. In the beginning, there has to be one sort of super human, an unnatural thing. Something. ANYTHING.

Screw these ideas if you want to, I think of life as the above. There is a God ... But we may never know ... There might be no God at all. But I believe there is a god.

hehehehe....

1) There is this thing called parallel universes....string theory....blah blah blah....and the big bang was born from a very small condensed atom-like universe.
2) The atom was born from the big bang, which we aren't totally sure why it happened(but we eventually will) as Einstein states and proves E = MC^2. Energy from the big bang was transformed into the matter(or atoms) that form everything today.
3) WHY? Do animals think there has to be? Why do only humans feel this need? Why are all human religions based off the human being better than everything else? If your so-called "god" is so benevolent, why do dissenters get sent to hell, if they live a moral life? Why are gays put down when they have done nothing wrong? Why does modern Christianity reek of human corruption? I can bash on religion all day and not get anywhere with you people.

[So12a]

I just think think it's unreasnoble to do a vs about them since both aren't near to fullproof..I don't really belive in god if there was..everything in this world would be fucked up...we still can't explain how everything came to be tho, it might even be something else beside god or something that the science people think..

[Cross Croccifixio]

Yeah, well I'm not Christian, am I now?

I'm Muslim, Islamity is more sensible ... Except it's being tainted by those friggin' extremists. -_-

[Aethon]

Stories in the bible cannot be proven so it can't be labled as fiction or fact and Science is all about fact so one cannot be better than other. Science can prove the reason why babies are born but cannot answer unprovable statements like life but religion fills in the rest such as souls that keeps the bodies alive. One cannot exist without each other

I can live without religion. *sits in my chair and stares at the screen for a moment* yep... I just completely ignored all them unanswered questions, and mysterious of life... wanna know how? I don't care. Science is fact, that's all that matters in this world, facts. I don't want someone shoving "knowledge" down my throat that hasn't been proven. When someone discovers a god, and records said experience somehow, I'll believe them then, until then, I'm going to continue to ignore religion.

[So12a]

Im trying my best becaus my father is a muslim and is trying to pass it down to me..but it's not working that well since now im 16 and he starts with me now..it's a bit late now when im not really into religion that much..but still there are thing in this world that can't be explained simply by fact or science and yet religion has good aspects but they still have many things that's not right,or atleast i belive so..Gahh..i feel these threads are getting annying theres like a zillion of em, yarr!..

[Cross Croccifixio]

So true ...

[burnedalive]

Yeah, well I'm not Christian, am I now?

I'm Muslim, Islamity is more sensible ... Except it's being tainted by those friggin' extremists. -_-

yeah.....Those extremists suck. I can dig up some stuff if I knew more about islam, but I don't. I live in a christian environment(AKA the USA) and I see their corruption, but all religions have befallen the modern way.....also, some of those questions of answer 3 applied to islam.

[opivy]

The problem with religion is that religions don't have the ability to agree on anything, each religion has it's parallels and obvious similarities, but instead of each religious group sitting down and discussing how those similarities could have come to be and where the middle ground is, they denoucne the other as a "heretic" and condemn them to some place that is not enjoyable, or even better yet say they should be killed and follow through with that idea; therein lies the essense that religion is born of fear, fear of not knowing, acceptance, etc etc etc

Science, is born of curiousity, the want to know what really happens, they are painstaking in PROVING THEORIES, just because it is what we think is right, does not mean that it is, all science is still theoretical, we just put words to the data.

I chose to align with science because I can't believe that any "being" who is all knowing alll powerful, all amazing blah blah blah, is soooo shortsighted that if you dont say his/her proper name, wear the right clothes, do the right dance, kill the right chicken - that he would hate you etc. Someone with teh capacity and knowledge of such magnitude would be so far past such petty things that it wouldn't even register - so here we are, killing each other, arguing endlessly in the name of something that could care less otherwise were they to even exist. Pathetic, small minded, and fear bred.

[Sage]

I see them as separate entities that are both required, that conflict way too often.

Science is fact, the curiosity of humans, the finding of information. IT IS, not it probably is, it is. While we only know something like 4% of information, we are constantly continuing along a path to learn.

Religion is what people can use to believe in some sort of high power, something the masses can agree on to an extent.

As the person I am, I've always held science higher than religion, because praising some magical wizard in the sky never really suited me. Along with the fact that I can't stand the idea that we can't choose anything, it is all determined by fate.

With that in mind, I do believe there is some sort of higher deity, and they/it/he/she was there at the beginning, but really all they did was push the first domino. For me, the gods were there, and they now just sit back and play ping pong 24/7/infinity.

Because of how I see the world, I adhere to no religion. I love to learn about religions though, so when in conversation, I eventually end up at religion one way or another, and in that sense, I see how people believe.

[opivy]

Science is all "guess" work and then proving your guess - theories. Some of science is concrete, but a large large group of it, and all of it to start is hypothetical. Thats my biggest gripe abour religion, if there really WAS any type of God walking the earth, why don't we pool all our resources and figure out the truth instead of killing each other for the differences in the silly allegorical stories depicted in all the writings.

Oh well.

[Wolf]

Religion boils down to faith and belief. Science boils down to theory and conjecture. Faith is more difficult to change because it can remain even after all foundation has been removed. Science changes constantly as things are proven and disproven. Science lives in the realm we can explain and religion lives in the realm we cannot explain. You can compare and contrast the shit out of both but it is only futile. People will still have faith regardless of conjecture just as much as they will have theories regardless of belief. Human are so contradictory that we can live and will live with both.

[Cross Croccifixio]

Wolf, you should be a lawyer.

[Wolf]

Hahaha nah I just have a font of useless knowledge and a love for arguing with people. I owe it all to alcohol's ability to make me dumb enough to talk with any person that so much as stares in my direction.

[Simca'sLeftBoob]

Where to begin....

Firstly a disclaimer.
This is purely my own personal opinion. It is not meant to offend or be taken for anything except that.

Second of all,
I personally think that religion was created as a way of keeping people in line. It was a tool to govern. Religion uses fear and also hope as a way in which to control. If you're bad you will go to hell, be remade as a lowly creature or be permanently deleted forever. If you're good you go to heaven, are remade into someone successful or an animal that is privileged, or get to bask in eternal light. I believe that those were the grounds and founding thoughts of many religions today. Generally people don't want to go to hell or anything else bad. They see that someone has made an alternative choice which is ten times better and therefor act accordingly. Most of time. There is no better way to control a group of people then that of using fear. This is were the corruption starts.

That brings us to the bible. A collection of "truths" written to show the reader that every bad action has a bad consequence. That everything good you do, your reward is good too. Personally (I have read the bible) I think the bible was more written for the morals of each story then to be taken as a completely accurate historical document. Many of the stories have been proved to be false if not hypocritical. Example: The story of David and Goliath. He kills a man by stoning him to death because Goliath was a Philistine that defied his god. Tho shall not murder, the sixth or fifth commandment depending on your religion.

I suppose the point that I'm trying to get to is that Religion, which was once a very nice idea and could have brought great things to world, has become a web of lies, fictional and cruel way to give people false hope. It has caused wars, death, hatred, misunderstandings and confusion. Once again humans have taken a lovely wonderful thing and turned it horrid and disgusting. It is in the idea, the theory even, of religion that I think people want to believe.

As far as science goes, its most likely that people would rather believe that then religion because its legitimate. With religion its speculation and there isn't very much proof. With science it's a factual thing. It's certain, it's known. With religion almost everything is uncertain, unknown. There's no security unless you count your own faith and hope. For some people thats enough. For others, like myself, they need proof, evidence. Science is black and white, cut and dry. For the most part anyways. It's safe because it's truth.

Even things in science that have been proven false and things that were universally thought to be true and have been proven otherwise have still been proven. It changes much like religion should to accommodate the truth and replace falsehood. The world has been proven to be based on scientific facts and not that of religion.

I'm going to stop myself now because I feel that this has gotten redundant and has started to drag on. You get the point.

[Wolf]

You bring up a good point, dogmatic vs spiritual religion. The dogma of religion is what separates us as a whole. The Jews believe they are the chosen people of god. The Christians think Jesus was both human and divine. And the Muslims think the Quran is the direct word of God as passed down to Muhammad. Even if we could somehow sit down, talk, and agree on everything else Judaism, Christianity, and Islam will not compromise on those points. So dogmatic religion is all bullshit. Being a good person starts inward by learning to love yourself and then grows by slowly widening that scope to everything. Empathy and an open mind is all you need.

[SkyReaper]

I warn you now, this will be a loooong post. Paragraphed for your convenience. Also, this is all theory craft. :p

Though I pretty much loath today's religions in general, I don't think they started out as a way to manipulate the masses, they only ended up that way through time and the coroding of basic values.

I mean, having some big guy in the sky creating everything and loving everyone sounds kinda childish when you think about it, but heck, I bet that's how it all started. A childish dream by several people waaaaay back to describe what couldn't be otherwise explained through the same logic science adheres to, which is simply "Well, we can't think of anything else that could make it possible, it's gota be that."

Then came the fear of dying and what happened afterwards. People might have started making up stories about the various afterlives we hear of today to help with the passing of close ones and to help themselves confront the ineviteable.

After that we have the values taught. Don't you remember about your mother's stories that if you did something bad, some monster would come to punish you? Most of these stories aren't even related to religion in the first place, but are invented to keep the kids from doing things that could otherwise harm them or just plain keep them in line to keep stress at a minimum. Well, the stories way back then were most likely incorporated into religions over time as people from the time, lacking proof to say otherwise, would have lived on believing in such stories till death.

Now, those three factors are in my opinion, the basis of all religions in this world. Wether one even comes close to the truth is not for me to say, however one thing is clear. It all started out with one principle in mind. Ease of mind.

Eventually, as certain ideas "not religions just yet" gained in popularity, so too did the ideals, going on to teach about love and respect, but that's where these ideas stopped being beneficial. At this point, these ideas that became known and worshiped to many is likely to have caught the attention of the authority of the population, which would signal the start of the controlling aspect.

Masses swayed to an ideal can easily be manipulated. Specially those who have "blind faith" in something. Now this might not have been the case right away for all religions, but I'm fairly sure that in some point in time, they all fell prey to someone who could interpret the stories to their advantage.

These religions would then start to teach about submission through faith and that's when corruption set in. Sure, some may have unwittingly done so, but to me it seems pretty clear that it was by trying to control the masses that the evil was born.

Faith is at the same time a great strength and a great weakness as it binds the masses and allows for progress as a community, however once it falls into the wrong hands, it can instantly destroy it as well.

There's no way something created by humans can ever remain pure. As it corodes over time, opportunities will present themselves, and these opportunities are too alluring for those bent on power to pass up.

To me, today's science is just an other religion, though it's god is math. Already everyone puts all their faith in it saying it's "fact" like the believers of old. Sure, we've gotten many answers to life thanks to it and it made us progress immensely, but when you think back, so did religions. As for the validity of what science has brought, there are still many things that are simply left to theories and assumptions based on current knowledge, just like religion did.

There was one wise man who said, "The only certain thing in life, is death." It was some famous painter in the renaissance period, you know about him for sure, I just forgot his name. I believe in those words also.

The only time this world will truly be able to improve will be once all the bickering over who's right stops and we start looking ahead. Science included. Though that day is about as likely to happen as me being able to kick someone to the moon barefoot on a rainy day. I mean, so long as there's a person that's an extremist to anything, some religion or science, we will always be in some sort of danger of regressing. Even extreme neutrality's dangerous. (Yes, there is such a thing)

The only thing we can do is try to properly teach our kin to respect one an other and try to live our lives with no regrets.

[AngelofchaosX]

well to my aspect science came later then religion but its true todays scientific research have lead to great discovery and solutions but to me i think science and religion go hand in hand since i think now we are being abe to make more sense of our religions through science and are able to make the proper choices....

*Kilik stares in amazement* +120 points