Evolution or religion?

[meanlilkitty]

So yeah, which do you believe in and why? Are we the descendants of apes or put here by a higher being?

[Soladrin]

evolution, blankly, cuz the facts support it, and, a lot of religions have a lot of corruption and lies in they're pas(or even now)

dont see this as stab towards religious people though :) im cool with people being religious, as long as they accept that im not ^^

free thinker ftw :D

[Satralis]

I totally agree with that. Though ppl sometimes are in need of the help of some higher being and so they seek strenght from such sources and im content with that. Its just i didnt feel like that yet (nor will i ever) ^^

[meanlilkitty]

I'm actually a religious person who believes in evolution too. My religious views isn't really the typical religious way of thinking though I don't really support any of the organized religions (as far as Christianity goes) because they are corrupt, and it's more about looking good by showing up and getting money than it is about worship. I've seen to much of that anyway, in high school all the kids that I saw at church were the same one's who were about doing all sorts of naughty things outside of it, full of hypocrisies. Kinda turned me off from the whole thing, but I do believe in the Christian God, even though in my opinion all religions tie into together and maybe it's all the same God, just given different names from culture to culture. I also believe that God didn't just send one person down the preach to an entire world, if I were wanting to send a message out to multiple groups of people I'd probably want to send several "sons" to make sure it got to everyone. Which is why religious war and conflict irritates the piss out of me...anywho, I'm getting of topic...

As far as evolution goes, there's substantial evidence to back it up, and not only that, but it even says in the Bible that life originated in the sea. Something along the lines of He put creature in the sea and birds in the sky, and then creature on land. So depending on how you take it, the Bible kind of even supports evolution. Then again, I only take the Bible with a grain of salt, seeing as how it was written by a bunch of people who lived in a different time and age, and then later on edited by a King who decided what books should and should not be in the edited version.

Yeah, I probably wrote way more than needed, I love theology. To me it's a fun topic :D

[penguinism]

both...not even science can explain how something can come out of nothing...even the "big bang" would have needed something to CAUSE the explosion, religion starts and ends there as far as im concerned :) everything after that point is science

[Thunderlord]

I'm with evolution. As for religion there's way to much conflict and even the leaders themselves do not have all the answers. So which came first the chicken or the egg?

[Satralis]

well even that is explained... actually the whole universes creation was explained in some way...
The birth of the creatures in the sea is a process including physical and chemical reactions which enabled the creation of simple organic structures from unorganic ones (with the help of the gases in the athmophere and water and elctrostatic charge)...so information containers like RNA and later DNA could develop and form more complex creatures like unicellural creatures and so on...from here on its biological evolution. So creatures were really born in the sea, and later when the athmosphere contained more oxigen they could get out of it....
But in the age when ppl came up with religions these circumstances were unreachable and so they had to find an explanation to their existense...while christinity (as i learned in school) was the religion of the poor in the early Rome and preached common property an equality to everyone which caused it to become popular among the lower classes. And eventually they were persecuted since the rich didnt want to give their everything to the community...
Well this is what i learnt and this is what i believe is a reasonal explanation...though history is not so clear as in books but im content with that ^^

I think scientists found out that the egg was the first ^^

[Seijuro]

I have to go with evolution. There is far too much science to back it up. Though most of its only theory the proof is undeniable. Just as we are still evolving now. Like the european guys that have a genetic immunity to aids. Things like. We learn to live and adapt in different environments and what not. But as far as religion goes. I personally believe in alien life. The probability that we are the only intellegent life in the universe is so small. For the to be true you have a better chance at winning the lottery. And it would be ignorant ot think that we are the most intelligent in the universe. We have just barely touched into space travel. though this seem incredibly insane. I think peoples perception of god. Was quite possibly another intellgent lifeform who came to earth. At the time he was revered as a god. As years go by the story is passed from culture to culture changing just a little bit. It get corrupted for purpose of power however. or the idea of god was really just a tool for power but some slave who wanted to change the world. The same way different people interpret coincidences and miracles. To be a hand of god. No offense to those who are religious. I am just kind of against lots of the practices of religion. And i am sorry for going a little off topic. I just didnt feel like making a new debate over the origins of religion.

[playsafe]

I pick both. Evolution and Religion can coexist. The theory of evolution is not PROVEN. It's a theory. You should not believe everything the scientists say. In science, scientists have to be very critical of their work. There are some facts that support the evolution process but the creation of the world is a bit hazy. the supposed "creator" could of brought existence and the planets were formed from it.
There are massive generators that tries to simulate the big bang theory. If it works, i guess i will have to support evolution.

God could of not made the "creatures" on Earth. But what caused the Big Bang theory? or any other theories that made the universes and the heavens. Something coming out of nothing makes me feel skeptical. For now i believe that the process of evolution and religion fits perfectly.
Both religion and evolution has it's flaws that can be fixed by coexisting.

[chrono]

After reading about all of the political based career based scientists, the various science based organizations being little more than neo-darwinists cultists with little testable evidence (the Achaeopteryx's 'fossils' have been found to be fakes from the 1880's, afterwards the British Mueseum hide them away), and how astrophysics's completely refuse to acknowledge the testable "Plasma Universe Theory", which oddly shows a static universe, because it destroys astrophysics theory from the ground up, and to top it off dismiss that Humanity was planted by an advanced culture because it doesn't fit with their theory of self destiny. I'm pretty hard pressed to 'believe' in some scientists 'facts'. :o

Besides Evolution is just like Global Warming. Questionable at best and mainly for profit, requiring near perfect knowledge of every discipline.

And no I'm not really that religion-based, but it helps to know about both sides of the coin!

[Aeonsky]

Gah, I'm not touching this with a ten foot pole, but it's interesting how they only teach evolution in schools and don't teach intelligent design. Either teach two different opinions on the same topic, or none, you can't just teach only one perspective of a single idea.

[Katsuomori]

I hate to touch this sensitive issue but I could say it's evolution from how much I've read about it plus there are plenty of theory and evidence to prove it as well.

[Soladrin]

well i do believe in science a lot, not everything though, and only if it has been proven by a number of poeple and not just one guy preaching its that way, and about beggining and end of the universe? who cares, we werent there when it happened, and we wont be there when the latter happens :D


and for the who came first, chicken or the egg question: thats really easy, the egg, theres been some pre-chicken creature, who carried the genetic code for the chicken at a time, and then laid an egg with a chicken in it, tada, your chicken is done.

[Satralis]

I pick both. Evolution and Religion can coexist. The theory of evolution is not PROVEN. It's a theory. You should not believe everything the scientists say. In science, scientists have to be very critical of their work. There are some facts that support the evolution process but the creation of the world is a bit hazy. the supposed "creator" could of brought existence and the planets were formed from it.
There are massive generators that tries to simulate the big bang theory. If it works, i guess i will have to support evolution.

God could of not made the "creatures" on Earth. But what caused the Big Bang theory? or any other theories that made the universes and the heavens. Something coming out of nothing makes me feel skeptical. For now i believe that the process of evolution and religion fits perfectly.
Both religion and evolution has it's flaws that can be fixed by coexisting.

I disagree with that. Its not easy for me to accept that religion will fetch the things science could not discover yet... it would be the same as before...just because we dont know yet what the answer is, we shouldnt go with the "than it was a miracle" thing again...So when they do discover the reason behind the birth of the planet? Than comes another question that has to be answered and again religion will come and full in the gap till that question is answered too?

[penguinism]

I disagree with that. Its not easy for me to accept that religion will fetch the things science could not discover yet... it would be the same as before...just because we dont know yet what the answer is, we shouldnt go with the "than it was a miracle" thing again...So when they do discover the reason behind the birth of the planet? Than comes another question that has to be answered and again religion will come and full in the gap till that question is answered too?
its not about what u havent discovered yet, its simple logic...something cant come out of nothing, if i hold my hand out an orange wont suddenly appear in my hand out of thin air, it would have to be put there...so even if the big bang theory, or ANY theory on the creation of the universe is made and proven, it still cant explain for how something came out of nothing unless of course u account for something that is beyond the boundaries of science, whch in essense would be "god"

[playsafe]

Yet will we ever discover the reason how nothing brought something? The massive collection of theories could be all false.
I'm pretty sure you guys heard about the superconductor to "simulate" the effects of the creation of the world. I support both for there might really be a "creator" or a God. We might be all simulations on someone's computer. Maybe one of the theories might be true. Yet the discoveries of our universe's origin will get hazier for the galaxies are drifting apart... making it impossible to study stars and other space miracles that happen in other galaxies.(In the future).
If you guys support evolution or religon, you have to skeptical. Not all theories are correct and not all the stories in the bible are correct either.
Pshh... Pen apparently beat me in typing speed. I agree with Pen.

[Soladrin]

well i look at it differently... why does there have to be a start?

[Katsuomori]

How can I put this... religion is existed for the sake of controling the wild side of people (preventing them from doing bad stuffs all the time) and science is ever existed around us and it's used to prove and explain something or some event based on obsevation by using logics and several series of experiments to prove that theory. Either way, humans need both of them. Without religion... we are no different to the animals. Without science but with religion, we start to assume things without thinking about it why and will probably deciding to do something illogical (for instance disease which most illiterate people in this world thinks of it as a work of a devil as in truth it's just a fever and it can be cured in just one simple way.).

[playsafe]

well i look at it differently... why does there have to be a start?

The whole point of science is to observe and make theories on how the natural phenomenons occur.

[Soladrin]

yea, but heck, i really dont care about the beginning ^^ i live now.

and Katsuomori, i cant agree on the religion part... since if i read that correctly, your calling me an animal cause i have no religion :P (no im not offended, and i dont think you meant it like that) but anyhow, religions dont do that, the law does that :) and whats wrong with being animals? :O i'd prolly love the freedom (i'd miss the brains though :rolleyes: )

[Satralis]

its not about what u havent discovered yet, its simple logic...something cant come out of nothing, if i hold my hand out an orange wont suddenly appear in my hand out of thin air, it would have to be put there...so even if the big bang theory, or ANY theory on the creation of the universe is made and proven, it still cant explain for how something came out of nothing unless of course u account for something that is beyond the boundaries of science, whch in essense would be "god"

Still not enough... its again just the simple example of accepting that if an orange does appear out of the thin air than its the work of god. In that case Copperfield is the new Jesus...

[Parina]

religion.
there is a god, he made us. end.
it was taught to me that way and to be honest I'm not allowed to even think about if there's a god or not.
so I don't try to think too much about it =_=;;
sometimes I do it though and I feel like I'm betraying someone O.O;

[chrono]

The whole point of science is to observe and make theories on how the natural phenomenons occur.

Yep! They really are not that much different from salesman, historians, the rich pompous nobleman from the European historytrying to make themselves look learned, and open air hawkers trying to sell a product. Except for science folk they don't have any laws against spreading lies or inducing fear like they attempt to with weather reports (15 major hurricanes were said to land and yet we just now get the first one) and such.

[Katsuomori]

yea, but heck, i really dont care about the beginning ^^ i live now.

and Katsuomori, i cant agree on the religion part... since if i read that correctly, your calling me an animal cause i have no religion :P (no im not offended, and i dont think you meant it like that) but anyhow, religions dont do that, the law does that :) and whats wrong with being animals? :O i'd prolly love the freedom (i'd miss the brains though :rolleyes: )

Sorry I shouldn't say that... maybe animals isn't the good term to put at... sorry. :D

[playsafe]

Tsk tsk. It's obvious that our whole lives if being generated from a computer simulation program. And the person that generated us in another computer simulation program and it will go ALL the way to the original creator who is busy deleting simulations that figured out that they are simulations. Pretty soon we will have a computer simulation too. It's an infinite loop.

[Soladrin]

i agree with playsafe, only, the creator prolly got wiped by one of his simulation after they became aware of that fact, and took power of his entire system >=D

[meanlilkitty]

Well we are all animals, we just evolved to the point where we fight those instincts. Those urges are there, we just choose for the most part to go against them. In mans' early development I'm sure there really wasn't much of a difference.

Religion does have a lot to do with our moral structure and preventing us from doing wrong. It goes back to ancient cultures such as the Greeks, Aztecs, Japan, etc. All of these religions taught that there was consequence for doing wrong, whatever might have been considered wrong at the place and time. Without consequence what reason do you have to follow the rules? Our laws kind of stem from religion, look at America's own constitution. Even if you're not a religious person, I think that's still where our moral structure and laws began.

It's totally possible we're all part of some big experiment, a matrix of sorts. I believe in the actual act of believing. Whatever your beliefs may be, that is the truth for you. Doesn't really matter if it's true to anyone else. If you believe you can fly, maybe you can, just when no one's looking. No one else believes so they can't see it.

[playsafe]

well, religion does help sometimes. It can also be used for propaganda. :mad: Something like "In the name of God we declare war b labhalbhalbhal". All things have it's ups and downs.

[Katsuomori]

^Yeah... that happened very often in every human histories (Eg: The European Dark Ages)... especially at this time and moment where most activist and politicians used the name of God just to get what they want. Even some radical activist would do all the unrasionalble killings claiming it's all dine in the name of their God. (what an excuse)

[chrono]

That turned into a great segway for this little quote about Global Warming and Science becoming the new "Church" with it's white coated Priests.

By WILLIAM M. REILLY
UPI U.N. Correspondent
UNITED NATIONS May 10 (UPI) -- A former chief of the U.N. World Health Organization who also is a former prime minister of Norway and a medical doctor has declared an end to the climate-change debate.

Dr. Gro Harlem Brundtland, one of U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon's three new special envoys on climate change, also headed up the 1987 U.N. World Commission on Environment and Development where the concept of sustainable development was first floated.

"This discussion is behind us. It's over," she told reporters. "The diagnosis is clear, the science is unequivocal -- it's completely immoral, even, to question now, on the basis of what we know, the reports that are out, to question the issue and to question whether we need to move forward at a much stronger pace as humankind to address the issues."


http://www.upi.com/International_Intelligence/Analysis/2007/05/10/analysis_un_calls_climate_debate_over/6480/

A truly EPIC quote! :D

But with science BS aside Religion has always served a purpose. Some times for "good" and some times for "bad". But it's nearly universally served humanity from out right destroying itself.

[playsafe]

That turned into a great segway for this little quote about Global Warming and Science becoming the new "Church" with it's white coated Priests.



http://www.upi.com/International_Intelligence/Analysis/2007/05/10/analysis_un_calls_climate_debate_over/6480/

A truly EPIC quote! :D

But with science BS aside Religion has always served a purpose. Some times for "good" and some times for "bad". But it's nearly universally served humanity from out right destroying itself.

But is also nearly universally caused humanity from destroying itself.
Shh. How many wars war fought over religon?
you can't just list the pro and cons and decide if it is more beneficial or less beneficial. There are several other factors that can change everything.

[meanlilkitty]

No doubt that various forms of religion have caused just as much bad as good in the world, but even if not always in practice the concept is a good one. Man will always use what we can to cause harm to the world, even if it's something with the ability to bring much good, it's in our nature, and I guess the balance is needed in the world. Without bad there can be no good and vice versa.

Yeah, religious wars are one of those things that's never really made since to me. From what I know of various religions, most of them teach tolerance and morality, but some how the idea of killing off other's that don't necessarily agree with a peoples' own beliefs come into play...I don't know, if God's this kind loving being who created the ENTIRE world...why would he want one creation to destroy another. I think religion or spirituality is a horrible excuse for such things. It's a certain group of people or one person wanting to feel better about themselves for doing something wrong.

Even though I do tend to lean towards religion, my views on the subject are pretty open. I do believe there's a God, but I like to keep an open mind about things. I tend to be more philosophical when discussing such subjects.

[playsafe]

And so do i meanlilkitty.
...
GO SCIENCE! lol.
Religion is always fickle. Nowadays "they" change a bit less but its still fickle. Probably depends on the leader.
Science is even more fickle than religion because science constantly changes. So the popularity of either side really depends on the setting.

[Soladrin]

well i look at god quite differently, (im not a believer at all) but if there is god, imo, he's laughing his arse off, were probably just some toy, and guess what? the toy does all this **** out of itself :D Even in HIS name !

if i'd be god i'd do the same XD

[midorika]

Religion existed... the reason being human needed support mentally...
Evolution began as beings starts to improve on their well-being of their physical life...
An evolution also began because of the birth of a new ideology... think free-thinker..
Most younger and up-coming generation will say they are going for evolution...

But then, evolution would turn out to be a new "religion"..
It is because, a religion doesn't necessarily meant an existence of God, and God doesn't necessarily meant religion...
Religion is a belief.. and to worship - isn't it that you agree to what "God" says, his ideology, that you worship "God"?

People believe what they want to believe... Some people deny, some people agree...
People don't believe what some other believe... Some people deny, some people agree...
People believe what some other don't believe... Some people deny, some people agree...
People don't want to believe what they don't want to believe... Some people deny, some people agree...

So then, I don't mean that both coexist... They simply exist.
It's just how things are right now... That's how the system is...
How is it possible to deny both or accept both?
It's not up to us to deny or accept... It's just there...
We are living in such a world, such a system... what else can we think of...
We can let our imagination run wild... but exactly when is it that we will meet the other end...
We have short lives... anything is possible in the future... only thing is we won't stay until that time of "infinite realization of the impossibility"...

I still choose to believe that there should be someone or something out there... in total power of everything... but who or what is it?

[keshies]

yer, we were put they by some supreme being.
but i think the whole evolution stuff is pretty cool but i don't believe in it, dat y i failed physics:( jokin' didn't read (lyed 2 my parents dey are super religious!

[Artemis]

Evolution. I'm agnostic...so...yeah. On that note, I thought you guys should check this out, lawl.

http://www.truthsforkids.com/

[god]

ya theres no such thing as a god i gotta go with evolution and if there was a god then wat would be the point in making us then not doing anything to help or save us wouldnt it be better to just kill us off as a whole and save the planet and the animals before we destroy it and then move on to another planet and repeat the same cycle because fat gov officails dont want to get off there but and do someting because it would cause money to come out of there poket so they would rather sit and do notin. got off the topic there but ya no suk thing as religion if there ws then which one is the right one and if there isnt a right one then there is no point in any of the religions if there all the same.

[Ray]

Religion. Don't ask, just is.

[Akirai]

It's really Creationism versus Evolution.
<.<

Religion doesn't mean that the religion's god created the universe.

To me at the moment, I believe in God. I'm a Christian. And for me, Evolution as a means of creation is nigh impossible. I mean, atoms forming together to become the basic building blocks of life, AND then forming life, AND then forming thoughts, AND then forming a conscience. It just seems too impossible for random chance.

And then here comes Quantum physics people. In an infiite number of universes (Or galaxies in this matter) anything you think of is possible.
But, I things of that matter ridiculous.

Faith is something we can live on. Random chance really isn't. At least to me.

Also, if evolution was real, what is there to live for? If all we are is random chance, why should we live. Everything in science beyond that level is depressing. Because after we figure out that we really are random chance, we will figure out that no matter what we do, we will end up being another victim of random chance and end up extinct.

So it's not really a debate about who is correct. It is a debate about what we should believe in. Evolution or God?

And too the people saying that there's no God because he isn't doing anything.
This is from my Christian and personal stand point.
Most people criticize the Christian God because even though he loves us, he seems to be sitting on his *** and not helping when a bad situation arises in his believers or peoples lives. This to me, is idiotic. You are saying that a person that sent his son down to die for you, doesn't care about you?
Imagine the pain that he went through, the pain of holding the sins of the entire world on his back as he carried the cross towards his death. Imagine having your body crumble under you as the blood flows from every pore of your body. Imagine being beat and whipped so much that he wasn't even recognizable as a HUMAN. Imagine pain, the suffering that he went through.

Yeah, that really makes the suffering I go through seem really small.

Oh well, that little rant about that is over.

[midorika]

Religion doesn't mean that the religion's god created the universe.



I agree with this.
But, I don't think it is some random chance..
To use that phrase somehow, to me it's like belittling human's existence..
Random as it is.. it is not that simple...

Issues like this aren't for everybody.
To investigate the beyond, we can leave it to the more intelligent humans who are readier to accept new theories. However, for normal people, it would be intimidating them; since they've stick with their religion(belief) for an entire life, suddenly asking them to accept something new will definitely raise their resentment and make them very defensive.
As time continues to tick, some insignificant things are changed little by little, eventually affecting its surroundings...

People do extinct. We don't see anyone back from the Paleolithic age right here right now anymore do we. What we have are descendants from then. That's reborn. Reborn of a new life not reborn to a new life. Our existence is justified. We know dinosaurs extinct, yet we found their remainings - fossils. By the time we extinct, will somebody else - new human - look for our "fossils" and study us...
I shudder to think yet curious.. something to step into - the afterlife?

[Soladrin]

I think Humans are overrated>_>

Afterlife, what im about to say may result in someone getting offended, but its my oppinion on the matter.

Why should there be an afterlife? All we are is a chain reaction of chemicals and sparks really. Why for what reason whatsoever should there be something after this? I think your just gone, nothing beyond this. I cant grasp any reason, except to assure yourself, why people think theres something after you die.

[Vicious]

I support both Intelligent Design (religion) and Evolution (science)

After reading a 19 page description of the Anthropic Principle, one figures out that before the earth was made, the universe was a mess of various elements. The odds of those elements combining in specific proportions to make a planet where life could exist were infinitely small. This leads me to believe that some Higher Being must've had a part in this process, and that He made the Earth a life-sustaining planet (why else would only one planet have been created with the ability to sustain intelligent life?) From there, I think that life was left to develop by interacting with other life forms on Earth, and that eventually it evolved into what it has become today. So in a sense, both the Story of Divine Creation from the book of Genesis, and the Theory of Evolution have their merits.

People always want to believe one or the other, but I think that we're here because of a combination of both =D

and

Why should there be an afterlife? All we are is a chain reaction of chemicals and sparks really. Why for what reason whatsoever should there be something after this? I think your just gone, nothing beyond this. I cant grasp any reason, except to assure yourself, why people think theres something after you die.

It has actually been proven that humans aren't simply the product of chemicals and sparks, that there is a far, far more complicated existence in this mass of flesh called a "soul". Researchers are currently investigating it, but even with modern technology, it is still beyond our understanding. So therefore, if it is discovered that the soul can live beyond the years of the body, then we can be certain that there is an afterlife of one form or another. But for now, nothing's for sure.

[Soladrin]

I support both Intelligent Design (religion) and Evolution (science)

After reading a 19 page description of the Anthropic Principle, one figures out that before the earth was made, the universe was a mess of various elements. The odds of those elements combining in specific proportions to make a planet where life could exist were infinitely small. This leads me to believe that some Higher Being must've had a part in this process, and that He made the Earth a life-sustaining planet (why else would only one planet have been created with the ability to sustain intelligent life?) From there, I think that life was left to develop by interacting with other life forms on Earth, and that eventually it evolved into what it has become today. So in a sense, both the Story of Divine Creation from the book of Genesis, and the Theory of Evolution have their merits.

People always want to believe one or the other, but I think that we're here because of a combination of both =D

and


It has actually been proven that humans aren't simply the product of chemicals and sparks, that there is a far, far more complicated existence in this mass of flesh called a "soul". Researchers are currently investigating it, but even with modern technology, it is still beyond our understanding. So therefore, if it is discovered that the soul can live beyond the years of the body, then we can be certain that there is an afterlife of one form or another. But for now, nothing's for sure.

Oh btw, after reading my post, i think im coming on a bit to agressive ;P so dont think im trying to start a personal war here :)


First of all, i already spotted a big mistake here..
Though you didnt really say it, the way your talking about the earth being made out of the "Various elements" sounds like you believe there is no other life out there, wich frankly speaking, is just plain impossible, yes, the chance of a planet being made that could sustain life was infinitely small, but there was also an infinite amount of "elements" thus resulting that there would always be multiple places with capability's of having life, be it microscopic or more advanced then us, saying theres no other life out there is just being ignorant, since with the size of the universe theres no way in hell theres gonna be just one planet that has the capability of supporting life on it. Oh ps. there are planets VERY similar to earth out there anyway, here's an example http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/070424_hab_exoplanet.html

Furthermore about that "proof" about there being more then chemicals and sparks, do you happen to have a link to an article or anything about this? These are things i want to know :)

[Vicious]

don't worry, I'm not a fan of forum battles either =P

and for my source for the soul info, this book (http://www.scienceofsouls.com/) was on nbc news a while ago, it may be worth a read.

and you must've misinterpreted my post
I think it's perfectly logical that there's life elsewhere in the universe, not just on Earth. It's just that my theory happens to concern the creation of life on Earth specifically, like those of evolutionists and creationists. The universe is so infinitely large that the infinitely small odds are offset because infinity times 1/infinity = 1, so the probability that there is life elsewhere is almost certain :B

no offense meant to anyone by the way.

[Soladrin]

ah ok then i indeed misinterpreted it, you didnt note that you were specifically talking about earth, that way it does make sense ;P and ill check it out later :)

[par167]

I am religous but share my views and do not force them on people. Christianity ,Judeisum and Muslimisum all share a common begining.It is said in the Christian bible that they will fight till the end and it seems to be true I find this sad.The eastern religions all teach tolerance and peace which I cannot fault. I am a Christian but like Joy and some others do not like the way that the churches are full of hypocrits.I ask that you let me believe what I believe and I will respect you in the same way back.I do my best to obey what was taught in the bible.When I was younger I was hung up on the big bang theory but as I grew a little older I have seen to many random things in personal experiances that have brought me to my faith.I do understand that the universe was started in 1 place but what gets me is that it is said by scientist to be returning to that one point.Why ?,and what is there to cause this?Seems scientist have no answer for it.As for Jesus lets see anyone here take 12 normal people teach them for a couple years and change the world to the extent that the your death represents the year in the calender for much of the world,what are the odds Joe the carpenter could get a couple fishermen and do that now even with global networking? That is one thing that I wanted to throw out there for debate.One other thing I wanted to throw out is that what a person feels thinks and see's are all electrical impulses that in themselves are unseen.How can we then write off God ?I know in order to read this you must think but I cannot see you think .Can I say because I cannot see you think means you do not ?There are alot of unseen unexplained things in this world ,Do not be to quick to say they are not there.It would be foolish.If all we see think and feel is electrical ,can't that be manipulated ?.So much for deep thoughts lol.
Just like this manga we all come here to read and talk about,we all have our own road and I hope yours is happy and full of life,whatever you believe.Life is short so live it well!! Paul




Any day above ground is a good day!!

[midorika]

I think Humans are overrated>_>

Afterlife, what im about to say may result in someone getting offended, but its my oppinion on the matter.

Why should there be an afterlife? All we are is a chain reaction of chemicals and sparks really. Why for what reason whatsoever should there be something after this? I think your just gone, nothing beyond this. I cant grasp any reason, except to assure yourself, why people think theres something after you die.

Hmm... I was thinking that there could and should be something after all...
That's just based on my own logic... Let's take the dinosaurs for example again, they died, but we managed to find their bones, didn't we? And there's this frozen ice maiden, 15 years old from waaay before - she's now in a museum... Those pharoahs from the Valley of the Kings in Egypt, scientists unearthed them... If people just plain gone after they are dead, why should there be "remainings"??
Maybe the remainings do not have life in them.. but if I compare it as to a shell, can I use this to say that there really is something called "soul" in each living creature? If there is this "soul" which is why people are alive like they are... after people die... surely "soul" would leave for somewhere else?
I believe in cycles, so if there's an ending to a start, then the ending would go back to the starting point - like a circle and depending on the circumference for the length of period... That's just about similar to whether egg or chicken comes first~

[Soladrin]

i can anwser the chicke or egg question easy... egg was first, in the evolution, an ancestor of the chicken eventually laid the egg that caried the chickens genetic code.

And your logic on the remains really doesnt count as logic for me, no offense, its logical that physical remains remain, thats why its physical, things dont just go poof and its gone. :) And on the soul issue, i cant really talk clearly about this, because havent read that afore mentioned book, and thus i know my knowledge of the matter is lacking, so, i cant anwser on that right now really, though my gut shouts out theres nothing, stick with it XD. And.. your cycles thingy... A circle doesnt have an ending or a beginning..


btw, vicous, that books bull****, he investigated it from a religious point, just look at the author bio, so thats no proof at all ~~

[Black Rabbit]

well here's what i think about this whole development....

I don't believe evolution to be wrong nor do i believe religion to be wrong either.

in terms of religion, it's hard to believe that everything just happened by occurrence since the beginning of time.....
it just so happens our planet is exactly the best possible distance from the sun for life to occur. it just so happens that our planet is also composed of the correct component ratio of elements for the earth to be mainly comprised and of water with an atmosphere keeping the planet a moderate temperature. it just so happens that two amino acids in the ocean happened to collide to great the first living single-celled organization capable of self-reproduction... and so on. these unlikely occurrences just seem like luck to the extremest form possible, i kinda believe that there was a helping hand in all of that, which some may call God. then there is the evolution theory that collides with the god creation theory as stated in genesis. first of all what makes these two theories collide? god made the world in 7 days, evolution took billions and so on years... in the 1925 Scopes trial, which debated this issue in a court of law, there was an argument made saying this: how long a is day? this key point here is the term 'day' itself. 'day' is a man-made device used to measure time for the earth's rotation. again, the word 'time' is also a another man-made device. we only experience time because we as carbon-based being, we decay aka die. If we didn't die we wouldn't see time the way as we do now breaking down many of our views of measurement, and thus giving more credibility to einstien's belief as time as the fourth dimension ironically adding to our ability to measure on a quadratic level. anyyywayy, back to god, if take the previous to be true, how can you really measure what a day is? god created a human beings in one day? how long was that day? a week? a month? by our standards or maybe it took a billion years or however long the evolution process has brought us to this day. its possible that he helped those two amino acids together to made life on the beginning of that one 'day' and by the end of that 'day', by the natural course of evolution they ended up as human beings. there's no way to deny irrefutable facts, evolution did happen, but then again the chances of that happening with sooooo many factors working in favor to our existence makes it seem that there more than we can understand giving life direction.

[Soladrin]

this is really the most anoying thing in this discussion.. i've heard at least 3 people now say the same thing as in: i think god had a hand in it because the chances are so slim. But your looking at as if its the only planet. With so many billion planets out there, even with chances so low, its bound to happen somewhere.

And about your theory on the "day" your forgetting one important fact. The bible was written by a human, and thus, from a human viewpoint, thus, our view of a day applies here.

[Wolf]

The Bible is a symbolic text meant to be read and understood by a culture and society that doesn't exist anymore. To the right audience it is read and understood in the correct manner but the millenia of new people kinda let interpretations go off in a tangent.

Besides the 6 day story was written after the original garden of eden story. The reasoning behind it was that the multi religious Roman Empire wasn't so hot for the ridiculous nature of the eden story. So it was pumped out into a logical format so that they could get more followers to the sprouting and, at the time, illegal religion.

[midorika]

And man... osama's latest video....
I just don't get it....

[Vicious]

I guess that soul book may have been phony

meh
:B

[Akirai]

this is really the most anoying thing in this discussion.. i've heard at least 3 people now say the same thing as in: i think god had a hand in it because the chances are so slim. But your looking at as if its the only planet. With so many billion planets out there, even with chances so low, its bound to happen somewhere.

And about your theory on the "day" your forgetting one important fact. The bible was written by a human, and thus, from a human viewpoint, thus, our view of a day applies here.

How about if the chances were 1 x 10^-95568412%?
I would even dare to say that that's an understatement. From the process of nothingness into the human conscience. Though, yes once you take infinity into the equation anything is possible. (Then we could always explore the complications of string theory. Why not? Let's all think there are parallel universes, one without shrimp, one without soap. Then there's the multiverse, and all that wonderful little confusions.)

And on the second part, if you're talking about a text in the Bible, technically it's written by humans who are said to be inspired by God. Of course, if you don't believe in this God, it wouldn't matter to you now would it? But it matters to Christians, and probably is something that you have to consider. Because it's never clearly stated on how long days are to them. And since each book is different, each word used could have a different meaning.
Like the Chinese dialects. One word in Mandarin might be pronounced the same as in Cantonese, but they have different meanings.

I'm also wondering if my question in the other post was posed before. The question of why we should believe in evolution as a means of creation instead of creationism.

I really think that's the main point of it, not the "facts" and "proof." Because everything humans do is just a guess. Some very accurate guesses so far, but still a guess. (Like the Theory of Gravity, note that it's a theory, a speculation about the laws of Gravity, which just happen to be right. So far.) It's about what the general populace believes. Some people might need to lean on God to support them; some people might think that they can do their own things without any help from a God; some people might fall into hopeless despair if they found out that their life was just random chance.

[Soladrin]

i know my life is random chance, so i live by random happyness :D

[Amoniac]

Understanding a God, might be beyond human's comprehesion, God may be a something that could be understood by science aswell. Then, we have nothing to prove that God exist nor that not exist, we can't prove how the world was made, how big is universe. But believing in a God is something diffirent to undertake the Dogma of religion, which overall has a very positive meaning, thus making an ethical codex, and telling to stick to it, gloryfing altruism, and condemns the egoistics.
The nowaday's problem of the religion, are the people for whom religion become a politic, to fight and gain certain advantages. By their corrupted point of view they try to get certain advantages. People say bad things about catholic church, but I think the biggest don't lie in corrupted Priests, but in the way the religion was made and they way it's now. Cuz Church was made to support people with their problems, as a community centre, now the Church has lost lots of that meaning, becoming just a place for cold ceremonies and speeches. I hope in further time, the Catholic Church will regain it's old strenght, because people left without the guidance, tryign to fill that spot. I think that' s why in europe buddhism is getting more popular, cuz it's focuses on seeking guidance by meditation and getting personal strenght.
People gain strenght with religion, it's making them better, thus people whose really do the religion, not just try to be in the 'society' .
Religion was giving hope to the people on the verge of the despair and one thing taught me something, how to die with pride, I remember when Jan Paul II was going to die, it was really proud death, knowing how to die, not to be afraid of it, even if we don;t know there is something after the life.

Talking about human's creation and evolution by bible and science, bible is full of sybloms, the creation in there may be true, but written by someone who couldn't speak nowaday's technical language, cuz I once spoke with priest about it, he said to me, 'it's the people who deny the evolution, not the bible. ' Only the science can prove that, and religion should always supporting science, because religion is also neverending seeking the truth .

Peace,

[rasenshuriken]

this thread has got me confused...
evolution or religion???
??????

[kazekage36]

this thread has got me confused...
evolution or religion???
??????

the question is which of the two do you think made it possible for us humans to exist. i think it's evolution, but i've had to do multiple projects on this topic, and if we go way back to the big bang theory, there is talk about how such a occurrence had such a low probability of happening that it'd be more plausible if there really was a greater being to sorta tweak the situation a little. but all these stuff are just theories.

[rasenshuriken]

the question is which of the two do you think made it possible for us humans to exist. i think it's evolution, but i've had to do multiple projects on this topic, and if we go way back to the big bang theory, there is talk about how such a occurrence had such a low probability of happening that it'd be more plausible if there really was a greater being to sorta tweak the situation a little. but all these stuff are just theories.

i see i see. I think it was both, but evolution is more convincing.

[Setsuna]

I'm actually a religious person who believes in evolution too. My religious views isn't really the typical religious way of thinking though I don't really support any of the organized religions (as far as Christianity goes) because they are corrupt, and it's more about looking good by showing up and getting money than it is about worship. I've seen to much of that anyway, in high school all the kids that I saw at church were the same one's who were about doing all sorts of naughty things outside of it, full of hypocrisies. Kinda turned me off from the whole thing, but I do believe in the Christian God, even though in my opinion all religions tie into together and maybe it's all the same God, just given different names from culture to culture. I also believe that God didn't just send one person down the preach to an entire world, if I were wanting to send a message out to multiple groups of people I'd probably want to send several "sons" to make sure it got to everyone. Which is why religious war and conflict irritates the piss out of me...anywho, I'm getting of topic...

As far as evolution goes, there's substantial evidence to back it up, and not only that, but it even says in the Bible that life originated in the sea. Something along the lines of He put creature in the sea and birds in the sky, and then creature on land. So depending on how you take it, the Bible kind of even supports evolution. Then again, I only take the Bible with a grain of salt, seeing as how it was written by a bunch of people who lived in a different time and age, and then later on edited by a King who decided what books should and should not be in the edited version.

Yeah, I probably wrote way more than needed, I love theology. To me it's a fun topic :D

I'm just like you Kitty. I believe the bible and evolution coexist in some kind of way.

[MakubeX687]

To put it simple...I honestly choose not to dirty my hands with the either or. I just take it as "Today is today, that's all...nothing else is relevant." Because well..."Us evolving from monkeys...what are we pokemon?" I mean when you think about it, could monkeys evolve into human beings if they felt they needed to adapt to exist...given a few million years? And I am not referring to what has "happened", I mean could it happen again? And "Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in all humanity because a woman who was created from a man's rib was convinced by a talking snake to eat an apple from a magical tree..." yeah...compelling arguments. So I'm just gonna put what I have thought relevant and leave...>.>

[chrollo]

i know evolution exist because the dog is a product of man made evolution but i also know there is a god it just depends on what you call god i personally choose to believe that whatever created existence is god whether its a natural event or because of intervention i'm thankful to it
but im not gonna try and solve it or blindly believe in something i cant prove

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

I'm not a religious person, I believe in a god(s) i don't believe in organized religion. I rather not get into why, because its irrelavant to this topic. However I do believe had his hand in making humans, I find it hard to believe that everything appeared out of nothingness, evolution seems to make the most sense. There are the scientfic facts to back the theory up, but its just that a theory.

[chrollo]

I'm not a religious person, I believe in a god(s) i don't believe in organized religion. I rather not get into why, because its irrelavant to this topic. However I do believe had his hand in making humans, I find it hard to believe that everything appeared out of nothingness, evolution seems to make the most sense. There are the scientfic facts to back the theory up, but its just that a theory. sometimes i think people misunderstand the difference between a hypothesis, a theory, and a scientific law especially when it comes to evolution

[HollowKing]

to be honest scinece has no proof and always tries to find some, religion believes it has proof but cant prove it

so becuase of their own basis of thinking they argue, simple as that lol

DAMN CLEVER PEOPLE is what i say to them, and i have philosophy next *groan*

[Soladrin]

how does evolution not have facts then? explain fossils please?^^ they seem the have minor differentses between species and times, that wich created a new species over time, this simply says: evolution does have facts, not just theory. And why did apes evolve into humans? my thoughts abouit are simple, theres no need for adaption to have a species evolve. We evolved to human beings because we could, though its offcourse not an active choice.

[chrollo]

evolution is just genetic adaptation so who ever does the best and has the most kids will have their traits and mutations passed on
simple as that

[Soladrin]

ya, but with us humans its kinda different because we dont live purely on instincts, in nature, its just survival of the fittest, wich ensures the best genes are passed on. but with us humans, everyone can reproduce because we have no natural enemies except diseases and ourselves, and because humanity can freely reproduce, degeneration could very well take place too. anyhow, im going off topic xD

[chrollo]

ya, but with us humans its kinda different because we dont live purely on instincts, in nature, its just survival of the fittest, wich ensures the best genes are passed on. but with us humans, everyone can reproduce because we have no natural enemies except diseases and ourselves, and because humanity can freely reproduce, degeneration could very well take place too. anyhow, im going off topic xDactually humans pick their mates on a subconcious level just like animals for instance people have a genetic attraction to people that share are appearances like eye color or hair color or shape of someones face
(although it doesn't necessarily mean you'll only be attracted to people similar to u or at all) however we are also attracted to people who have to opposite of are immune system in fact we can subconsciously smell another persons immune system
which can lead to evolution for example

the fact the black plague eventually died down in europe in the 14th and 15th centruy was partially the result of evolution because the disease killed off most people who weren't resistant to it and the ones that were resistant survived to go on to have children who would also be more resistant to the black plague so really evolution is best described as a gift from God because its hard to imagine we'd be able to survive and prosper in this world without it

[Wolf]

A lot of people enjoy a mixture of religion and evolution because really science hasn't been able to support a viable theory about hte beginning of the universe, atleast I think so XD.

[022101]

Here comes my useless neutralism again :)

Multiverse. Bang.

IF either side wants to prove its point, then you would have to get to the very beginning of it all. Not to the beginning of this Universe, but all the way back...and that's a long way.

There are just too many variables for either side to be totally correct.

Edit: Besides, a religious person can ask himself this: "If there is a God, then did someone create him? And if so, who created the being that created God? And so on?"

[chrollo]

but even if there was a big bang thats not necessarily the every begging

[Seijuro]

at least with science theres is mathematical proof to back up any theories the origins of the universe. Whereas religion really ahs nothing at all. No plausiable way to back up a higher power created it all. they go on faith alone. which is so many respects is entirely crazy. zetsuie the big bang theory implies that was the beginning of our universe. but just as the galaxy expands from that point eventually it will contract into another big bang. and that has been happening and will be happing continously for all enternity.

[renegade0]

This is interesting topic. Personally, i would say it's almost impossible there is evolution. The reason is, because you will need many accident. It's like gambling. Some scientist said to turn primordial soup into one cell protozoa (or something like that), you need 4 million years, while we only have 2 million years (after that, multi-cellular 'thing' start pop out)

[infernovia]

More like 4.6 billion years (since earth formed) or around 2 billion years for life to evolve. Seriously, where the heck are you getting those numbers? We have had atleast 500 million years of evolution before the dinosaurs existed, and that was 150 -65 million years ago.

Right, even if your statement was true, evolution would still happen because of UV rays and other mutations. Its just that abiogenesis wouldn't be as appealing.

[Leave]

I love a good religious debate. Being a devout atheist, I seem to get into quite a lot of them. Thankfully, I usually mange to avoid steering them into a heated argument.

As I said, I'm an atheist. I was raised such, and I examined various religions and my own personal feelings before truly coming to that conclusion, and making peace with. I simply don't believe in the paranormal, being a man of facts and proof. As such, I believe in evolution, thanks to the barrage of evidence and logic that it is supported by. Not believing on a higher power makes me curious as to how else we could've came about, considering the believability evolution brings.

Now, I have no problem with people getting their jollies from religion. My girlfriend is Christian, and I think it's great she finds contentment through faith. However, I believe it should be a personal thing, and I dislike the concept of organized religion. In my opinion, people should come into faith on their own, and not preach it to others. I'm tired of being told I'm going to Hell for not agreeing with religion. Which isn't to say all religions are pushy...I'm generalizing. A dangerous activity, I know, but a relatively honest one.

Religion is, to me, an archaic system that will inevitably disappear. It was created to answer questions no one was able to in the past. Now, science is providing more and more of those answers. You can certainly gain inspiration and a guide to healthy living from the Bible, but I don't believe it should be taken as a literal and historical document.

Well, that's a portion of my religious views. A bit much to be posting on my first night here? :P

[AngelofchaosX]

I pick both. Evolution and Religion can coexist. The theory of evolution is not PROVEN. It's a theory. You should not believe everything the scientists say. In science, scientists have to be very critical of their work. There are some facts that support the evolution process but the creation of the world is a bit hazy. the supposed "creator" could of brought existence and the planets were formed from it.
There are massive generators that tries to simulate the big bang theory. If it works, i guess i will have to support evolution.

God could of not made the "creatures" on Earth. But what caused the Big Bang theory? or any other theories that made the universes and the heavens. Something coming out of nothing makes me feel skeptical. For now i believe that the process of evolution and religion fits perfectly.
Both religion and evolution has it's flaws that can be fixed by coexisting.

*Transforms into Kilik* Nicely said. +80 points.

[Silverseeker]

Meh. I have to say, science and religion don't mix... There is nothing directly contradictory, but it's usually the people involved who get all excited about disproving god or coming up with some idiot way to make god exist.
Um... Just a comment on the guy who says something about who created god, I might as well tell you that if something is infinite in scope, it will never have the need of being created or destroyed. Just because nobody ever thought about the possibility of immortality to truth, they could be wrong. Immortality would be living for all time, correct? So if somebody was truly immortal, not those idiots from stories who become immortal, but somebody who is naturally immortal, then that person would never have been made, having lived for all time.
And Leave, you're probably dealing with Christianity, possibly Islam, but I don't think any other religions practice the idea of evangelism. However, points to you for accepting the fact that some people believe in god and not minding it. I hate an atheist who can't shut up about the nonexistence of god. They're always idiots because they can't prove what they're saying and they still spout it out. Oh, and the same applies to excessively evangelistic religious people.
Oh, but wanischaaa, you can go and decide what you want. Just my own preference that if somebody enters a debate thread they actually give a point that can be argued. I'm not allowed to attempt to destroy your free will. lol

[Waking_Dreamer]

I believe in evolution and science but I aint going to say religion is a load of bull.

For me science is how I make sense of the physical world around me and religion is way to make sense of my life.

Its quite simple for me...

[DNM]

I believe in Relivolution XD

[Blue Marble]

Athiest here, so it goes without saying that I side with science. The thing is, I would never slam someone for their religious beliefs as long as they were positive in nature (good will towards your fellow man, being a good person, Christmas etc). The only time I ever turn "lol religion" is when stuff like the Pope telling Africa not to use condoms comes up (or Islamic extremists, etc). I've seen that the majority of religious folks are cool though and it's only the idiots/assholes that make the rest of them look bad (story of humanity's history, ain't it?).

The way I've looked at it is that spiritualism has always been a way of humanity filling in the gaps of things they couldn't understand. A few examples of this are disease, gravity, space, physics in general. So I was thinking about what I really believed one day, and of course that almost always leads back to "where did everything come from?". Well, I had this thought.

What if everything that ever was, simply was? There was no actual great creation, but actually a big 'reset'. The most widely accepted theory is that a big bang 'started' it all, right? Well, there's also this theory that it will end in a 'big crunch', wherein the universe collapses on itself like a black hole. So my train of thought was, what if the two are actually connected? What if time isn't a straight line like we assume it to be, with no actual beginning or end. Time itself is a concept man thought up as a tool to understand things, and since man is flawed maybe our concept of time is flawed as well. What if the universe was a constantly changing, expanding and re-birthing phenomena that isn't truly 99 quadrillion years old, but eternally old because the process of big bang and crunch have been repeated over literally countless times, making 'existence' a relative term, making all creation some immeasurable amounts of age, because maybe 'age' doesn't truly exist. I know this sounds crazy because I've essentially thrown away the concepts of "end" and "start" at this point, but isn't that how everything works? Oh sure, we might die, but the elements our bodies are made of return to the earth to make food and fertilizer. Water condenses and evaporates constantly. Everything on our world revolves in a cycle, with matter being unable to completely obliterate, only change form. So who's to say the big bang wasn't a redistribution of elements and particles on the greatest scale ever in the same way water falls to the ground and becomes evaporated only to be rained down upon again. An Eternal Cycle that's been going eternally because true time might be cyclical as everything else in the universe seems to be.

tl;dr, maybe there's no such thing as creation, and it's only a concept we thought up because the bounds of our imagination didn't let us comprehend something 'bigger'.

Also, I realize I have too much free time on my hands now.

[DNM]

An endless loop...a perpetual system...interesting blue :idea:

[Silverseeker]

Chicken and the egg, fella, chicken and the egg. I don't particularly support either side, but nobody's really answered what started it all. Christians have their God, science just doesn't really have the start.... Wonder what they'll come up with....

[Battousai]

The egg came first.
Science already answers how life COULD have formed through natural processes in many ways. We just don't know which way it was. The scientific branch that studies it is Abiogenesis.

Saying "godidit" just because we still don't have an answer is a fallacy.

[Silverseeker]

Oo

And you're saying that random ideas like a God have no accuracy?

And I believe we're talking about the universe, not life >.>

[burnedalive]

Oo

And you're saying that random ideas like a God have no accuracy?

And I believe we're talking about the universe, not life >.>


ya... That's exactly it. Just because the majority of man kind believe in something it's true? The ideas of man are constantly challenged and changed. And we do have an idea on how the universe started. It's called the M or string theory. My understanding of it is that outside of our universe, there are many other parallel universes that grow and float around around each other. When two collide, massive mounts of energy are created, thus the big bang. It's still only a theory, but we don't not have an idea.

[Battousai]

Dude... A scientific theory is a scientific explanation and a set of confirmed hypothesis that explains a FACT. So don't call it "only a theory".
Evolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_evolutionary_synthesis), Relativity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_relativity), Aerodynamics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerodynamics), Atomic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_theory), Germ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germ_theory), Probability (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probability_theory), etc are "only theories".
There's a difference between the popular usage of the word theory and its scientific usage.

The deal with the string theory is that it's part of a theoretical branch.

And you're saying that random ideas like a God have no accuracy?

And I believe we're talking about the universe, not life >.>
Why would they have accuracy?
Universe or life. Even if science doesn't have an answer yet, saying god did it, without evidence backing it up, is just a fallacy.

[burnedalive]

Dude... A scientific theory is a scientific explanation and a set of confirmed hypothesis that explains a FACT. So don't call it "only a theory".
Evolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_evolutionary_synthesis), Relativity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_relativity), Aerodynamics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerodynamics), Atomic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_theory), Germ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germ_theory), Probability (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probability_theory), etc are "only theories".
There's a difference between the popular usage of the word theory and its scientific usage.

The deal with the string theory is that it's part of a theoretical branch.

Eh, I'll call it a theory. If there was no proof for it, I'd call it a hypothesis. Theories can be proven wrong and M theory still has the chance of that. What would take it's place would be entirely new and something you'd never think......

[Battousai]

Eh, I'll call it a theory. If there was no proof for it, I'd call it a hypothesis. Theories can be proven wrong and M theory still has the chance of that. What would take it's place would be entirely new and something you'd never think......

Science doesn't prove anything, it predicts and observes.
Try to prove the Sun will rise tomorrow. You can't. You predict the Sun will rise tomorrow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

And anything that is scientific can be "proved" wrong. Find me a monkey in the Cambrian period or DNA that doesn't fit in the evolutionary predictions, and the Evolutionary theory is done for.
To be science, it has to be "unprovable". Else it would be religion or bad science, like creationism.

[tikman]

How can there be a BIG BANG Theory in the first place?

[DragonsFlame2190]

Well if we evolve from apes why are there still apes here?

[burnedalive]

Wow..... just.... wow. First of all, why CAN'T there be a big bang theory? For that second question, it would be different environments. The aped of today isn't the ape of yesteryear.

[DNM]

Lol @ you two, not you bordz, those two random guys before you -__-

and DragonFlameswhoeveryouare, perhaps the conditions that these "apes" you see today don't exactly push them to try to adapt enough to actually evolve.

[Wolf]

I may have missed it in the 10 pages of people saying the same stuff over again but does anyone actually believe in the religious side of the world only being like 4500 years old or whatever?

[p4091a]

Well if we evolve from apes why are there still apes here?

invalid statement.
Darwin never said we evolved from apes.
we merely share a common ancestor.
Like how you and your cousin share a grandmother.
You and your cousin can both exist at the same time.

hence, I reiterate; invalid argument.

[toogembogue]

Just because its a major topic twisting together religion and science, I was curious what people think about it.

Do not tell other people they are wrong.

Everything here is opinionated, and you can discuss ideas, but no one really knows for sure of anything, so dont tell people they are wrong. This is all about beleifs.


I honestly beleive that God started it allyes, I beleive in the big fella and yet, he didnt do everything. He started it off with cells, but let evolution kick in from their. But thats just my opinion, its not a fact, nor is it a lie, because we dont know yet.

[burnedalive]

Very true, but when people begin to spout, " the big bang can't happen!", "apes and humans can't exist together!", and "Some things are too complex to evolve!"(That's at you, intellegent design) without any backup to that; you have to step in and set them straight. Those are uneducated and hopelessly idiotic statements that should be disregarded by the whole of society.

[p4091a]

Do not tell other people they are wrong.

Everything here is opinionated, and you can discuss ideas, but no one really knows for sure of anything, so dont tell people they are wrong. This is all about beleifs.

This makes me sound as if I'm an extremist, close-minded brat who doesn't accept the view of others D:
So, to protect whatever scanty reputation I have—

I never said anyone was wrong by believing in creationism, intelligent design, or whatnot.
I was just merely pointing out the FACT that the person didn't not understand what Darwin's theory of evolution was about.

It isn't about opinion anymore. How can you have an opinion on something you don't know about. It's like how I'll probably get flamed to death if I went "OH CHRISTINANITY IS WRONG COS THE POPE EATS BABIES FOR BREAKFAST".

ANYWAY.

I don't see why religion and evolution have to go head-to-head. Evolution never talked about the origin of life (despite the title of Darwin's book), merely it is a scientific way of accounting for the changes in organisms without any spiritual hocus-pocus.

From what I know, the main problem (for those who actually do know what evolution is) lies in the literal translation of religious texts. For example, Christians subscribe to a "young world" belief, which means that there is insufficient time for evolution to take place. (Muslims don't quite have that problem because time references are more scattered throughout the book.)

If one were to take a looser interpretation of religious texts, there wouldn't be any fundamental argument between evolution and religion.

[okami]

Ummmmmm Well. Im a religous person and well. Has anyone ever thought of dimesions. A multiple point in worlds and stuff like that. Maybe if infinity stood for every single possibility imaginable and some omipototent bieng ran that and was bieng watched by an even stronger bieng... Well Im just confusing myself. Im just saying dimesions could have there own special law like physics and maybe a omipotent bieng like "God" does what he wishes.... Just saying.

[Silverseeker]

Oo
* Likes P4091's idea.
I have never met anybody outside of my small circle of friends who has thought that way. Awesome!

[Wolf]

Well the Bible does make mention that God brought all the animals to Adam for him to name. People usually take this as intrinsicly meaning they haven't changed since that event. The counter argument is one like P's where time is being told as relative to the creator and cannot be taken literally because of the human condition. There is also no mention of a mechinism for change or stagnation which is why we are having this debate to begin with. Religion is flawed because we are flawed. Science is flawed because we are flawed. We cannot see the truth because we lack the vision to do so but, quite frankly, learning something new is much more exciting than knowing everything. So keep an open mind but do not forget to question everything.

[okami]

Wow. Thats an awesome way to think of things. I agree that we are flawed. and that Humans in general strive for perfection. Due to that fact we are in a constant war to be perfect. If we all had stopped trying to be better then the other sometimes. Maybe there would be less damage to the world then there already is. Thank you, I liked the comment you made on this subject. Also not to get off topic but we have the same name.

Okami = wolf in japanese I believe.

[lokitakeuchi10]

Sorry to break it to you burnedalive but the universe having zero spin (as far as we calculated) is a sign that there was 'creatio ex nihilo' of course if you prefer another theory, there is always the eternal inflation where universes are born from other universes, but that still leaves the question of where the first universe came from. Or perhaps the other theory by James N. Gardner or Andrei Linde that humans are cosmic replicators meant to evolve so as to create a baby universe for our universe. With the death of the universe being our 'driving mechanism'. In which case the universes are created by previous precursor civilisations to escape the heat death of the universe. Since the big crunch/ osciliating universe isn't possible with our current calculations of omega being bigger than 1.

Also, I think evolution/ natural selection has been proven correct. But that doesn't really denounce most religions, buddhism doesn't say where life came from, and Hinduism seems to have a metaphoric interpretation of evolution from fish to man. The only problem is when religion tries to make scientific theories without proof, but if religion lets science do its job and religion just continues as a culture, than there is no conflict. Also I think a higher being would have foresight to build his creations with adaptive abilities so they don't die out after one small ice age. After all its one of the most important rules in inventing, "The product should be adaptable".

[Forty-Two]

I'll go with religion. God hates all of you guys. :x

[warpig]

i love that idea that wolf has