Cloning?

[Seijuro]

What are your guys views. Ill post put my opinion down in a bit.

[aznkangaroo3]

Cloning as in stem-cell research?

[busha]

this is one of those debates where u really have to know about it not just speculations. Cloning in general like creating human beings i dont agree with because you are disrupting the natural order of the universe. But on there other hand it can lead to very useful medical adaances. Like someone needs a heart, one we could clone someone for the organs. This is probably the toughest debate so far.

[Parina]

it's really tough...
i'd say no.
cause... how should i explain, it is not a "real", a natural human being... it has no "soul"...

[aznkangaroo3]

If you are talking about stem-cell research, then I am against it. Stem-cell is a clone of you in a primer state. You basically use the cells to revive cells in your organs, just as a dying liver or kidney. Even though you are helping people, you are also killing a life. This is sort of like the movie "The Island". Anyone that watched the movie can relate ^^

[Satralis]

i watched it and its totally different T_T cause here they are not walking around countusly than one day just get ripped apart...
My opinion is that if it for savnig ppls lives than its a good thing...from the Stem-cells u can create anything since its the source of all cells...be it a new heart, liver or ur nose. Its just the way they work... wouldnt u want to give back the skin to a man who went into fire and got burned?
About cloning...its not true that the clone has no "soul"...first, give me the exact definition of the soul... and the newborn is as much a living creature as all the others so there shoudn be a problem...the reason why im still againts it is that it would be used for reasons that are may be not correct... egs.: they would clone Einstein just to get another genius and so on...

[Seijuro]

still dont have time to write everything down. It really one of those science vs relegion debates. The Natural order of things vs progress. etc...

[aznkangaroo3]

But, if you are using stem cells to save a life, you are also killing what could be a life o.o" (another you)

[Satralis]

a could-be like me is not enough. its a cell that has special attributes that can be be helpful in various ways... its just like transfering blood since it doesnt affect the actual life of a person.

[aznkangaroo3]

But, this is sort of like the abortion issue. An abortion is basically the destruction of what could be a life, or a human.

[Satralis]

oh well if i consider it like this: there is a fix amount of oocyte in the female ovari since birth, and when she enters puberty, these oocytes are starting to die thats called menses (its a simplified way of describing it but basically that happenes), where the oocyte gets impregnated or not... so basically, everytime a female fails to sleep with someone until menses comes, and doesnt get pregnant, she takes the life of a could-be human...all woman are serial killers...

[busha]

but when it comes to stem cells there not really taking away a potential life they get the cells from people fetuses (cant spell it my bad) where the parents already decided for an abortion stem cell research doesnt take lives

depending on ur opinion abortion does or does not

this is getting really similar to abortion debate

(Had to do report on this last year)

[Satralis]

well it does seem that these kinda problems pop up here...i was just waiting till someone makes an euthanasia thread

and about what u said: i totally agree and stem cells can be taken from another place...ahm the spinal coard i think but its so painful that actually its not worth it...

[busha]

But people don't understand how cloning is done. There are many ways but the easiest and most common way is to take genetic material i dont remember what exactly they do next learned this a long time ago but then they inject a genetic directly inside the womens uterus (no not artificial insemination thats different) in a way so that no genetic material is recieved from the women. So when its born its an exact copy of the person

when u think of it that way cloning doesn't seem so bad

[playsafe]

Well... i say no to stem cell because... of science... not religion. There are other ways to get the same results without using discarded embryos. If we can do that, why even use such a controversial object?
Cloning is not possible yet (I think?) but animals have been cloned. They cloned sheep and even cows. They cloned some farm animals for meat also. (Not sure if there are any potential health problems in eating it)
I personally think cloning shouldn't be done to either humans or animals. It would complicate our world and this would undoubtedly be some major problems in the future.
So i wanna shut myself out of the world, and read my air Gear. (Of course, I'm not the only one. :D)
Cloning can bring SO MUCH ISSUES. Identity theft, Impersonators, and other things can be stolen or swapped. What is the purpose of cloning humans anyways?
(I just remembered a movie where people had clones for medical insurance without knowing it.)

[busha]

Its true cloning of farm animals has been done for meat

How would that bring health problems if its an exact copy of a healthy animal who knows it could cant say im not a doctor [yet :)]

Cloning of a human is possible if they can clone animals they should be able to clone humans

But cloning humans no matter what its for is illegal in the United States

[playsafe]

Of course:D People like me don't want to hear it and wants to be drunk with air gear/claymore.

[Seijuro]

more information about cloning for those who dont know what it is or how it works. The simplest way to explain is it after fertilzation of the egg. They cut off one/eigth of the organism and grow it into a second organism with an identical genetic code to the first. Stem-cell cloning usually refers to growing. New organs. Like a failing liver, heart, ideally at some point any part of the body. The pro's of this include the fact that you can then replace and imperfect part of your body without risk and musclar rejection. So when you ahve liver cancer you can replace your liver with an identical liver without hte cancerous tumor. But this is still in a research stage. As for cloning animals the problem they encountered was that they found cellular degeneration which lead to arthritus at a young age. and so they animals were dying before their time.

As for my opinion on cloning i believe in cloning. It has countless excellent benefits from it. For those who believe it destroys the natural order of things. Say you cloned Einstien. the clone would have an identical genetic code but if he was brought up differently as he definately would be seeing as how einstien lived so very long ago. The clone would quite possibly not end up anything like einstien. As cloning opens up new possibilities such as genetic alteration. Removing the imperfection in ones genetic code as a cloned embryo. Plus im all for science. I believe progress is the natural order of things. The only thing ever constant is change.

On a side note i cant confirm all of the info i used as i did a report on this in highschool over a year ago and im just going on what i remember. so if i am wrong about somethign go ahead and correct me.

[busha]

And this would lead to nature vs nurture debate

Which is basically the debae does human personality come from their heritage or from how they raised

A person who is prejudice against a certain type of person would his children be prejudice because they inherit his personality or would they be different depending on how they were raised


Tough debate omg

Cloning debates tend to branch off into many other debates such as stem cell research which leads to abortion

Or cloning to moral standards to religion there isn't any black or white yes or no view with cloning

No can say they disagree with cloning because they would have to disagree/agree with hundreds of other debates directly relevant to cloning
here is an article with pros and cons of cloning




Cloning (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/93224/the_pros_and_cons_of_embryonic_cloning.html)



dont click the link unless ur prepared to read like nine pages of writing

so to even complete this debate it would require many other debates to be debates

[Seijuro]

The object is not actually to complete the debate just to present structered arguments of our opinions and facts so that we may form a complete opinion and challenge each other and ourselves intellectually

[Satralis]

and also to gain additional information about serious matters through various sources...
about stealing identities: well actually that is quite problematic. Since it would indeed be a bit strange when one day walking on a street u see ur own younger version on the other side of the street...but actually its not such an easy thing to do (yet), since its not just about stealing a piece of skin or hair like in movies and there u go with a new u...

[Saiha]

and also to gain additional information about serious matters through various sources...
about stealing identities: well actually that is quite problematic. Since it would indeed be a bit strange when one day walking on a street u see ur own younger version on the other side of the street...but actually its not such an easy thing to do (yet), since its not just about stealing a piece of skin or hair like in movies and there u go with a new u...

I agrre with you on that one..

[Seijuro]

But beyond the ability to create someone who looks just like you its is nature vs nurture. Me and my siblings look nothing alike. We dont even really share any mannerism. We also dont look anything like our parents. But 2 different familys i know. in one family the two brothers look just like each other and the share the same mannerism they even look like their dad. And they are adopted. Another point i should make. It is kind of like that manga black god. if you guys have read it. There are 3 people in the entire world that look identical and essential share a soul. Bad things happen if they meet but the probably of them meeting is little. unless you specifically cloned yourslef the chance of you meeting your clone could quite possibly be very small. We could also have a situation like The Island where they start cloning humans merely for the purpose of using their organs. I think i watch to much sci-fi. Personally i believe cloning is a scientific development that should go through. It will allow us to discover so much of life and our genetic code. It could ultimately end the argument of nature vs nurture. Whethere things like sexuality exist in your genetic code or it is somethign you grow into. The possibilities are endless. But just with all great new discoveries there are always downside that come but i htink with cloning hte good outwieghs the bad. Its kind of like fusion. in 50 years there will be fusion energy plans operating aroudn the world. If the meltdown you have bomb that can take out an entire city but at the same they would solve our energy problem. Do you choose to not take it all or choose to take the good with the bad. I choose choice 2.

[playsafe]

i prefer not to take risks.
BTW i watched Island too. :D .
Your choice options bit to narrow because the bad doesn't necessarily mean it's destructive.
Solar power and other such energy sources are very clean, but they tend to be inefficient. If you we start funding for research, there will be a higher efficiency rate. Right now, the solar power efficiency rate is 50% compared to the same 50% decades ago. We can strive to get the "good" and try to nullify the "bad". It's just harder i guess. So in a sense there is still some "bad" for it requires more effort.

[Seijuro]

Yes okay my choice option may be a bit narrouw but to make a better point i went with an extreme. Not ot get off topic but with the island i loved the first part of hte movie but the second half when they run kind beomes like a sterotypical action.

[playsafe]

yeah. I agree. The ending was kind of stupid because they did something which was impossible for them to do without any explanation. :confused: Was it the situation that made them mature? I don't know. But it was pretty stupid. You had to make inferences what happened. Very vague ending but i didn't mind the kissing. :D
(was it just me, or was their *** really fat? Does 4:3 screen make it look that way? :eek:)

[Seijuro]

i dont understand with the bleeped out part. Chances are it was the screen though.

[midorika]

I don't think there's anything wrong with cloning... Scientists should go on about it and extract an excellent report of useful facts...
Bad things happen if there are clones around like impersonating, identity thefts etc.... Human came up with this idea, so surely they should be responsible over the matter and only use it for good.
Why abuse the technology when people experimented on the subject cloning because surely the first thing they thought of would be how it is beneficial to mankind, organs for the diseased... No more sufferings or mournings/moaning...
Technology is there to make things better for us... but some people just smartly did something else - bad...

So, before saying straight on that cloning is not a good idea and disagree with it.. Why not first think how come problems arose from it?
We are able to manipulate how we live our life, why choose the darker side just because it is a shorter route but not the brighter end of the world with love? This would be a message to all criminals...

Really, bad stuffs just have to happen to balance out the good...
What to do...???? Otherwise, there won't be any "debate" going around anymore isn't it...

[Soladrin]

well IMO, i think cloning should be allowed, but not the complete cloning of a human, just organ cloning, like the above post stated, for the diseased, this way they should be able to manufacture organs that have a very high probabilty of being accepted by the body in need, reducing risks with such operations.

[Artemis]

Cloning? It's one of the considered solutions in Biogerontology, but it certainly is a crude one.

[Soladrin]

how is it crude?

[Artemis]

how is it crude?

It's crude when you compare it to all the others ways an individual can extend his lifetime. (I'm referring to full body cloning, of course.)

[Soladrin]

oh like that, well i was still thinking on the subject of cloning organs for medical use, full body cloning is to risky in my oppinion

[Artemis]

Hm? Risky in what way?

[Soladrin]

identity stuff and such, i think theres just to many things in our societies obstructing cloning

[Artemis]

Ah, but that is one of the reasons I consider it crude. You would have to upload your whole brain and store it, then transfer. You can't just expect for the clone to know who he is. You can't reproduce memories..

[Soladrin]

says who?>_> i still think technology rules, and im in love with possibilty's of nano tech :D

anyhow, i think theres away around everything, just need to find it :)

[Artemis]

About the memories? That's just my guess. However, you could just transplant your brain.

[keshies]

no, cause i'm religious.
BUT how would u feel if u found out u were a clone, a test tube baby (shrugs)! i'd feel sry 4 dat person, human cloning in my OPINION is wrong,but i'll stay neutral for animal of plant cloning (they have no feelings)!

[playsafe]

no, cause i'm religious.
BUT how would u feel if u found out u were a clone, a test tube baby (shrugs)! i'd feel sry 4 dat person, human cloning in my OPINION is wrong,but i'll stay neutral for animal of plant cloning (they have no feelings)!

can you find proof for the no feelings part... Some scientists say they have no feelings but some animals show some kind of reaction that may be emotions... Plants are iunno.

[midorika]

everything has feelings and emotions. Maybe some just lack the standard amount of it - like me :D
Anyway, even if the clones (human) will not have feelings as the scientists have said, in my opinion, the clones will still have it - eventually developing it themselves. If they don't, doesn't it prove the scientists' failure of the research? Since, it is suppose to be a human clone, then why not?

But hey, animals or plants - they have feelings. I feel for them, maybe even more than I feel for humans. We should respect them, we are all equal and same - we exist and live together in a vast community - and they existed before we did. And about eating them even though I said they have feelings too, that's another story. It would be like - in this society that sported equality (for me, including animals and plants) - we are all cannibals.

[yankumi018]

for me...creating clones is utterly absurd.........if ever they will be created...humans will only treat them as vessels for living organs...like an organ refrigerator...you open them up and get the organ you need...just like food....
there might be a war between humans and clones....and there might even be a clone president.....
isn't that just scary.........that is why i don't want to think that we will ever need clones....people are better off just by accepting death and be being content with what we have and not try to surpass SOMEONE even greater than themselves.......
I also disagree with cloning....it's already been said...that it disrupts the natural order of nature...it even disrupts the balance between science and religion.....I would definitely go to the religion side......science only explain and make people understand...religion moves people....
i want to end this now.........i am already getting out of hand and out of topic..........
:pglomp:

[midorika]

Which is why law should come where it is suppose to be... regarding cloning that is.
It's actually useful for organ transplants... With all those immoral crimes that will arise from it, surely there would be a solution. It's all about human themselves.. if they keep their mind straight and stay away from committing crimes, i doubt anything bad will happen.
However, it's a fact that there is this darker side in human and unless the person deal it with... there's no end to bad things happening in the world... So what can we really say?

[Setsuna]

Cloning will only unbalance the world. If cloning were to exist, no one would know which clone was the original, and etc. Besides, scientists are making clones for them for organ supplies, and etc. That is inhumane. Even if they are clones, they were made to be human. They can feel, and maybe even think for themselves, just as we do.

[kazekage36]

it will also take away the value of a person's life; if we were to make clones for reasons other than medical purposes, the fact that we would have an unlimited supply of them could lead to some people to forget the importance of a life. For example an unlimited supply of soldiers in the army; because the higher ups know that there'd be more to take the place of the dead, they'd be more willing to use more reckless plans .

[chrollo]

i dont know if its
a good idea cause i'd end up cloning me just to be able to kill me



I'm not emo

[MakubeX687]

Personally, I am strongly against cloning for a few reasons. 1. Who needs another George Bush... 2. Playing "God" will not be accepted by today's Religiously strung society... and 3. It would be like America's war on terrorism...just a whole lot of bullsh!t waiting to happen. Okay say we do develop cloning research. I know this is gonna sound dumb but Hello! Star Wars: The Clone Wars. Rather than making cloning open to the public "Via organ refrigerators as someone stated." They will just be whored by the government to make their own personal armies, then it will become a black market thing and other nations will get a cloner and clone Americans with the personality of a terrorist or some bull...or even spies D: Anyways it may be just my paranoia but nothing good can come from cloning...Well unless they use it strictly on animals and help solve world hunger ^.^v

[022101]

...Why do I always miss the meat of the topic?

Anyway...Here I go with my opinion. When it comes to replacing a damaged organ like say a heart, then I'm all for cloning just as long as it's for that purpose, saving a life not prolonging it into the extremities.

From what I've heard so far, a clone of a person can't be considered to be natural or have a soul because their very existence was forced from some samples of DNA.

Well yeah sure, you can say they have no soul, but doesn't the very fact that they have the ability to posses a personality of their own and that they have their very own thought process give them a soul?

Besides cloning can be analogous to an over-exaggerated form of s*x and birth. And since we aren't as advanced as some movie sci-fi stuff. We don't posses the proper technology to actually go far as to clone humans. It's there the technology, but then what will happen? Genetics and DNA are very powerful trump cards. Take away the clones telomere caps and they just may very well die anyway.

[Seijuro]

Everyone should go out and read enders shadow. The whole clones dont have a soul. Truly if they are intelligent then they have a soul. but at the same time its really is the value of the human life. then go see the island and maybe a approach like how they originally planned. and technically we could clone a human. But i got htis from a site when i did research in this a while ago.

Due to the inefficiency of animal cloning (only about 1 or 2 viable offspring for every 100 experiments) and the lack of understanding about reproductive cloning, many scientists and physicians strongly believe that it would be unethical to attempt to clone humans. Not only do most attempts to clone mammals fail, about 30% of clones born alive are affected with "large offspring syndrome" and other debilitating conditions. Several cloned animals have died prematurely from infections and other complications. The same problems would be expected in human cloning. In addition, scientists do not know how cloning could impact mental development. While factors such as intellect and mood may not be as important for a cow or a mouse, they are crucial for the development of healthy humans. With so many unknowns concerning reproductive cloning, the attempt to clone humans at this time is considered potentially dangerous and ethically irresponsible

whoever above said something about religion moving people and science not. You have been brainwashed into thinking that. As a child when you attended church and they teach that anything that turns you away from it is the devil. Religion has a hold on so much of hte world. But science is what truly moves people cause science is truth and fact. it present realities of the world while religion is based on the teaching of a supposed people from 2000 years ago. we need a debate topic on this

[renegade0]

well, after read some book, the real reason why people offense cloning is simple: family. technically, if you clone someone (or something) the clone will be that one (or that thing) twin, not your kid. or their kid. you get what i mean?

[regalia00]

Cloning is both good and bad:
Cloning is bad, because it destroys the morals of life or something. If you can just have an instant baby right now you don't have to go to the trouble of making one, there is no more thrill and excitement. Imagine the thought of having hundreds of carbon copies or clones of yourself around you, wouldn't it feel awkward? It's bad because it destroys the normal flow of life because it destroys the normal flow of life, because all humans are made different from each other
Cloning is good because it may very well keep mankind in existence and save many lives.

[Reaper]

Nope its not
I'd love to clone myself to fight with, might be fun to get someone worth the steam off my piss for once ^-^

[silverj2k7]

If you are talking about stem-cell research, then I am against it. Stem-cell is a clone of you in a primer state. You basically use the cells to revive cells in your organs, just as a dying liver or kidney. Even though you are helping people, you are also killing a life. This is sort of like the movie "The Island". Anyone that watched the movie can relate ^^

I watched that movie, and i KNOW what you mean!